Dive Into Amber Navran's Musical Journey: Influences, Debut Solo Album, Moonchild & More!

For the first episode of season 2 we sat down with singer, songwriter, producer and multi-instrumentalist (and lead singer of Moonchild) Amber Navran.  We spoke about her influences, her debut solo album 'Knock On The Orange Door', new project, Catpack and she also revealed some exclusive information about some very exciting unreleased projects on the way!

Transcript

El Train: [00:00:00] Welcome to a slice of sound podcast, where we interview some of our favorite producers and musicians. I'm very lucky today to be joined by a singer, producer, songwriter, and multi instrumentalist Amber Navran. My first memory of me hearing her music was back in 2015 with the release of her band Moonshield's second album, Please Rewind.

And since then, I've been steadily following her growth. With Moonchai Bolsa as a solo artist in her own right, her album Knock on the Orange Door was one of my favourite releases from last year, showcasing how amazing she is, not only as a singer songwriter, But also as a producer, um, yeah, first of all, I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining me It's an honor to have you on.

Um, how are you? Yeah, how are you doing today? 

Amber Navran: I'm good. It's been a good morning 

El Train: nice and So with these interviews, I like to take it back all the way back to the beginning basically [00:01:00] before you even Had any idea you wanted to make music but kind of what you were listening to when you were growing up Um, what sort of music were you hearing around your house?

You 

Amber Navran: My parents listened to a lot of the Beatles and the Beach Boys, Michael Jackson, James Taylor, uh, Sheryl Crow, Stevie Wonder. 

El Train: All of the, all of the classics, basically. Legends. 

Amber Navran: Legends. 

El Train: And were you kind of, was it a musical household? Were you encouraged to play instruments at a young age? 

Amber Navran: I was encouraged.

My parents are not musicians, but my grandma taught choir and played piano. And she was really excited about us playing music. Um, so we took piano lessons when we were young and didn't really get into it. Uh, but then in middle school I started playing saxophone. 

El Train: Okay. Yeah, I was similar actually. [00:02:00] I, I started, well I was kind of forced to learn piano to begin with.

I feel like it happens with a lot of people. And then once you get a bit older, you're like, Oh, actually piano is really fun. 

Amber Navran: Yeah, totally. 

El Train: And, um, you grew up in, in Seattle. Um, what was like the music scene like that? I know, like in the nineties you had a massive punk scene, but what, what was it like for other music?

Amber Navran: Um, I grew up North of Seattle in a suburb and the, I don't know if I know too much, we, we went into the city every now and then, uh, but there was a big, High school jazz band scene. There's some high schools in Seattle that have really good jazz bands and jazz directors. And so we definitely felt the ripple effect of that.

I didn't go to one of those schools, but our school was. was trying to keep up and um, had like a really passionate band director. So that was cool. [00:03:00] 

El Train: Nice. And I've heard you say in interviews before that your first love was, was the saxophone. What was it about the sax that really drew you in? 

Amber Navran: I think jazz music.

I just fell in love with jazz. And when I first started playing saxophone, my grandpa sent me his favorite saxophonist. I had just like fell in love with those albums and I think saxophone is one of the easier wind instruments to pick up. Um, so I think that made it easy to fall in love to just being able to play things by ear kind of quickly.

It takes a while to get a good sound, but it doesn't take too long to like play some notes. So, yeah. 

El Train: Um, and did you have like Who, who were the people that your grandpa gave you? Like what sort of, um, saxophonists were you hearing at the time? 

Amber Navran: He sent me Duke [00:04:00] Ellington. So Johnny Hodges was one of his favorites.

Um, take five cause he loved Paul Desmond. Uh, Stan Getz record and John Coltrane. So really solid start. 

El Train: Yeah. Like it's an amazing music. 

Amber Navran: Yeah. 

El Train: And then from there, I guess we're like kind of going quite a bit forward, but you, you then moved to, um, LA to study at. USC, right? Jazz studies. What was that like, like making that move, um, to LA and, and also what was the course like?

Amber Navran: It was great. It was really refreshing to be surrounded by people who were so excited about the music and, and learning and growing. And it was a smaller jazz program. So it felt like everyone was really close. Everyone knew each other. All the teachers knew who you were. So that was cool. Um, but the program, even though it was a jazz program, there was a lot of.

songwriter influence. So every [00:05:00] class had a group that was jazz influence, but not necessarily jazz that would play parties and shows. And when people walked into your practice room, they'd ask you what you were writing, not what you were shedding. So that's kind of what got me into Songwriting and singing and later producing.

El Train: Right. So was that like the first time you really started, uh, like working on your own music? 

Amber Navran: Yeah. Yeah. I had never written anything. Um, but yeah, when people walk in, it's like, Oh, I have to have something to show them. It was cool. 

El Train: That's cool. Yeah. And your first. Record with Moonchild, I think it came out in 2012.

Is that right? Um, I'm guessing that was like kind of the time you were leaving college Did you meet the guys from Moonchild whilst you were at USA? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, we all played horn So we knew each other and had played a lot together just from being in the same program [00:06:00] and and did a lot of hanging out But my junior year, I released an EP of the first songs I ever wrote.

And we did a little West coast tour, basically just playing for our families. Um, and Max and Andres were the horn section. And so the three of us ended up spending a lot of time in the car together. And that's when we decided to start writing music together. 

El Train: Nice. And that, that EP, uh, EP, was that a vocal EP?

Amber Navran: Yeah, I took it off. line because I don't like it anymore. It's just like the first songs I ever wrote. And the first time I'd ever sung on, on a recording, I had just started singing. So it got me to where I am, but I was like, this doesn't really represent who I am anymore. So yeah. 

El Train: Coming from like a background of already being a, um, a musician, do you think it was easier for you to then start?

Singing and writing your own vocals, or was that quite strange for you from playing an instrument [00:07:00] first? 

Amber Navran: It was both. I think there's some advantages to like, my, my ears were good because I had an instrument to kind of reference and, um, Yeah, but, but the voice is just such a different instrument, especially from the saxophone, um, it's a lot more temperamental and it's so in your body that you have to really work with the right people who are saying the right things to, to even start to access the sounds that.

you're trying to get, especially learning later in life, not just when you're a kid, just like experimenting and, you know, like imitating what you see or singing in choirs. So it's definitely learning voice has been quite the journey for me, but, um, yeah, it's been a good one. 

El Train: And when you, when you decided that you wanted to like start doing more singing and songwriting, did you have like people that you were influenced by?

Were there many singers that [00:08:00] You were, I guess, trying to imitate at first and then 

Amber Navran: yeah, I think with all of Moonchild, um, especially with Be Free, you can hear that we're, we've just started. So we all kind of sound like our influences and then as the album progresses, we start to sound more like ourself.

which is just how like learning music goes. Um, but yeah, for me singing wise, when I first started, we, we were all obsessed with Sulkwarian. So Badoo, Jill Scott, you know, D'Angelo. Um, so those were some heavy influences at first. I also found Emily King on MySpace Music before she released the 7 EP and had had those songs on repeat.

Um, Hiatus Coyote had just released Nakamura. So that was a big influence. Um, Glasper had just released Black Radio One. So that was a big album on repeat. And, um, We Are King just put out their EP, the three [00:09:00] song EP. And I was obsessed with everything about that. Vocals. the songs, the production. Yeah. So those are definitely big influences early on.

El Train: Nice. And I was watching a few of your interviews the other day and you mentioned that you're a, you were a big Leanne Havis fan. 

Amber Navran: Yeah. Oh, 

El Train: yeah. I just wanted to say, I love Leanne Havis as well. 

Amber Navran: Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. 

El Train: Yeah. So good. So, Yeah. Now I kind of wanted to move on a bit more to like technical, like production sort of questions and kind of talking about your, your album, which came out last year, knocking on the orange door.

Um, before we get onto those technical questions, why did you decide that you wanted to release a solo project after, after so many projects with Moonchild? 

Amber Navran: Hmm. Yeah, we've done, we've all [00:10:00] had little EPs, like solo projects outside of the band in the past. Um, and this knock on the orange door has been a playlist in my, uh, iTunes for a really long time.

I just never really got around to putting it out until like finishing it and putting it out until last year. Um, our process with Moonchild is we, we're all beat makers. So we make a bunch of stuff and then show it to each other. And then whatever everybody likes. or is like drawn to becomes Moonchild songs, but then there's always kind of leftover songs that we all really like that don't necessarily feel like Moonchild.

Um, so I've had kind of those songs building up since I put out, uh, Speak Up EP. And, um, yeah, I think we just had a break. Um, Max had a baby and, um, we were taking some time off the road and yeah, I also had a miscarriage in July and. For me finishing knock [00:11:00] on the orange door was like really therapeutic. It gave me something to like, really bring me joy.

El Train: Yeah, sure. I mean, it sounds absolutely incredible. So, um, yeah, you bring a lot of joy to, to lots of different people. Um, When you were creating the project, um, or when you're making music, like what, what's your setup? Like, um, is it quite a basic setup or have you got lots of like different software and hardware that you use?

Amber Navran: It's pretty basic. I use logic and a mini keyboard, a Roland mini keyboard, and I have two mics, a vocal mic I use is an AKG and the. Mic I use for horns and flute is a OMA mic, a ribbon mic. Um, and then yeah, software. I love spectrosonics. Sound toys, Serato sample, um, those are probably the things I use the most, both compressor, RC 20.

Yeah. 

El Train: Yeah. All the good stuff. And [00:12:00] when you're starting a track, I know for a lot of people, it changes every time, but do you have like a, like a starting point, like drums or melody or a sample? 

Amber Navran: I usually start with drums. Um, even before I started producing, I would ask Max or Andres to send me drum grooves to write songs to.

Um, and then, yeah, so I, I have folders and folders of drum grooves that I've made that I'll kind of go through when I'm going to start a song and just pick whichever Speaking to me in the moment. 

El Train: Nice. And you said you're on Logic, which incredible. I think that it's good to finally meet some people that are also using Logic.

Have you always been on Logic or have you, have you used other tools before? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, I've only used Logic. Um, I'm interested in Ableton for sure, but, um, I know Logic so well, it's hard to make the switch, but I've found, you know, [00:13:00] I've been able to do everything I want to in Logic and for a long time, it was a lot better for vocal editing, which was really, really handy.

So. Yeah, I love 

El Train: logic and it's what other i'm the same i've tried other things as well but with logic this I'm learning something every day. And also there's this there's this I don't know if you know her there's a producer on instagram called seeds and she Puts out these videos of all these shortcuts and things that are in logic That i've i've been using it for like 10 years and i've have never seen them before So if you're not following her, she she's incredible.

Amber Navran: That's a great tip Yeah, whenever I do a session with anybody in Logic, I'm learning new stuff, so. 

El Train: Yeah, there's always so much more to, to find out about. And I also, um, I was listening to your, uh, one of your interviews the other day, and you were talking about your, like, collaborative process. And how you like to, um, record on your own, [00:14:00] basically.

And that was refreshing to hear. Cause I know how hard it is to like, to get all of your creative juices out when there's other people around. Um, why is that for you that you like, you like to do? 

Amber Navran: It's how I've always done it. I didn't grow up singing in front of people. I started singing for Moonchild by myself, recording the first record, basically.

So yeah, I'm not, I'm really not much of a performer. I'm an introvert. I just like, I really, really love collaborating. But the voice to me is, So vulnerable. And yeah, I really do my best work when I have like the space to just be myself and, um, yeah, try things. And so 

El Train: nice. And you've collaborated with so many amazing people as well.

Like, um, night for wonders Zion eight last year, you're all over that. [00:15:00] Sounding amazing. I love Ninth Wonder. Um, you had a track with Misha last year, who's a chill hop artist, which is, which was great. Uh, Rhapsody. One of the questions that, um, someone from the community sent over is how do you find the people that you collaborate with?

Is it something like you'll meet them in real life or is it through social media or does it just depend? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, it's a mix. Um, Rhapsody, we met the Art of Cool Festival in Durham and, um, have been friends ever since. She's so wonderful. Um, and Misha reached out through a mutual friend, uh, Anthony Demby. And when I heard that track for the question, I was like, yes, I want to write on this.

It's an amazing track. Um, so yeah, it's a mix of in person and online and friends of friends. 

El Train: Nice. [00:16:00] And how do those collaborations normally go? Is it, are you normally like vocaling tracks or do you add different elements? Like, are you working on a production together with other artists? 

Amber Navran: It really depends.

Um, I try to feel out what people want. So usually I'll do vocals and flutes. Um, but if somebody is more open to collaborating on the production side, then we'll, we'll do that as well. Sure. Yeah. 

El Train: And I heard, um, you say as well that you're looking into like producing a lot more for other artists in the future.

Um, how. Does that process differ for you? Are you getting in the studio with these artists, or are you sending beats out? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, it's been, it's just started, which makes me really happy. I've been really wanting to shift or have more balance between singing and producing. Um, so [00:17:00] yeah, I've been in the room with some people.

Usually I'll start out with ideas that I'll send and then they'll pick what they like. Um, but I'm actually working on a project right now with Georgie Clifford and she sent me stems for some of her songs and I'm kind of building around them. So that's, It's different than I've done before, but it's been really fun.

So yeah, I'm hoping to just keep doing that. 

El Train: Yeah. I'm excited, excited to hear these collaborations for sure. And I noticed on, on the album, on your album, uh, there was a few tracks, which were just instrumental instrumentals and a few, which are vocals. How do you decide whether you want to vocal a track or whether you want to just let it 

Amber Navran: Yeah, I think just feeling it out.

Um, whatever I was hearing hooks for or felt like needed words or didn't need words. I, I wanted it to have more of a beat [00:18:00] tape feel. Um, so I didn't, I know I didn't want to sing on every song and like some of the songs I feel are a little too out for vocals. Like maybe an MC should hop on, but maybe not a vocalist.

So like the opposite voice is one of my favorites, but there's not really room for voice on that. But I was like, I definitely want to put this one out. Yeah. 

El Train: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then going back to like the producing for others and stuff, a question I really like to ask other musicians and producers. If you could like executive produce a project, an album or an EP for any artists in the world, who would be your like dream collaboration?

Amber Navran: Probably Erykah Badu. She's my, she's my number one. 

El Train: If 

Amber Navran: I could work with her in any capacity yet. I would yeah, it would be a dream. 

El Train: I think yeah, I think that would sound amazing as fingers crossed That one [00:19:00] there that one happens. 

Amber Navran: Yeah, maybe it's a long shot, but Yeah, 

El Train: and then so so now with with moon child you've release five albums, right?

Amber Navran: Yes. 

El Train: And the last four have been with on the Brighton label, True 

Amber Navran: Thoughts, 

El Train: True Thoughts and Rob Louis. I've got a little, uh, True Thoughts vinyl behind me there. What I wanted to ask is you've stayed with those guys with the last four albums. And I think The Cat Pack album you're releasing soon is also coming out on True Thoughts.

What is it about those guys that makes you want to keep working with them? 

Amber Navran: They're just so wonderful. They want us to be us. And yeah, they've treated us so well and, and helped us a lot. So yeah. 

El Train: Nice. And yeah, talking about Cat Pack, which is, I guess, your new project, like you've got so much going on. 

Amber Navran: I [00:20:00] just love collaborating.

So I've always got a bunch of different things in the works. Um, a lot of people have been like, Oh no, is Moontown ending? I'm like, no, no, no. It's definitely not ending. Just love a lot of people and want to work with a lot of people. 

El Train: Sure. Can you tell me a little bit more about Cat Pack then? How did that come about?

And, and what can we expect from that? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, Cat Pack was a pandemic project. Um, Jacob Mann and I went to college together and have been good friends for a long time. And, Always been a huge fan of him and, and wanted to do a project with him, but we didn't, we weren't really both home and creative at the same time until the pandemic.

Um, and we were both doing this thing called song a day for a month, which is something that was started. I'm sure a bunch of people do that, but the particular group that we were in was started by some CalArts students. And there's a page that you post songs to every month or [00:21:00] every day. And Jacob and I were both doing that and I just kept grabbing his songs and writing to them.

I was like, Ooh, I love this. Um, so we ended up with like five ideas and, um, somewhere along the line, we were like, this really needs a male vocalist. And maybe some more production or some more ideas. And we hit up Phil Baudrill, who has done a bunch of work with Moonchild and is one of my favorite artists.

Um, his last album has been one of my top albums for a while. So yeah, he. hopped on the songs and just like made them amazing. We were like, wow, this is crazy. He did, he really worked his magic. And we were like, let's put out a full length project together. Cause this has been just like easy and fun. So yeah, I feel like it kind of revolves around Jacob's sound.

Um, and then Phil and I are kind of just [00:22:00] adding, adding to that vibe. So. 

El Train: Right. Um, and when can we expect the album? 

Amber Navran: June 21st. 

El Train: Okay, so we've got a few months. Yes. I saw that you released a new video today. 

Amber Navran: Yeah, yeah. 

El Train: Yeah, that looks great. 

Amber Navran: Thank you, it was fun. 

El Train: And how would you say that Cat Pack differs from Moonchild?

Amber Navran: The musical voices are so different. Um, I think Jacob's voice and Phil's voice And Andras voice and Max's voice are also distinct. And I think when you hear them solo, they all have solo projects, and then you hear us together, you can really hear everybody's voice. Also, Cat Pack, since we've started so recently, all three of us have kind of already found our sound, you know, um, and brought that to the table.

And we came into the band being really big fans of each other and really wanting our voices, our distinct voices to, to be a part [00:23:00] of that project. Uh, Moonchild, we kind of grew together, like we found our sounds with each other. And so I think my sound is a little more similar to Max and August's sound than it is.

to Jacob and Phil sound if you, if you listen to it separately. Uh, so yeah, that's, I don't know. I feel like any group with two different people, you'll get different things and in beautiful ways. So yeah. 

El Train: Yeah. You can, I feel like, I don't know that the sound is a little bit more bright. Oh, I love it. It's very colorful again.

I guess that's very you. 

Amber Navran: Oh, true. Can we 

El Train: expect like to see any, any live gigs by you guys at all? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, we're working on booking a tour right now for, uh, fall, winter, early next year, um, nothing's confirmed yet, but it's in the works. 

El Train: [00:24:00] Okay. Fingers crossed for that one. And now, uh, I just wanted to, like, move on to a few questions we got from, um, members of the community.

Uh, we put some stuff out on Instagram and on our Discord for, for fans of yourself. Um, first one is from somebody called, I'm probably gonna butcher these people's names, um, Sunny Blowdrow. I think, um, and she says, yeah, you always manage to have a perfect balance of simple words, strong feelings. How, how do you manage to do that?

That's quite a hard question to answer. 

Amber Navran: That's so sweet. Yeah. I feel like it can be hard to say what you want to say and just like such little space. Um, yeah, I feel like some of the stuff that helps me a lot is. I read a lot of poetry and then [00:25:00] write things that come to mind or are inspired by, um, some of the lines.

So I have notebooks full of stuff where I've written down the original line and then whatever I'm going through really informs like what the inspiration is. So sometimes I'll even go back and write different ideas for where I am years later. Um, but yeah, I feel like poets are, because they're only working with words, they're like so creative and beautiful and they're finding amazing combinations that wouldn't, I would never think of.

And, um, so it's cool to kind of dive into that. And use that as an inspiration to kind of craft my own words. Um, and then, yeah, I feel like whenever I have a line that I'm not sure about, I'll just write as many ideas as I can underneath it. Everything that I'm like, oh, that's bad. I'll just like get it all on the paper.

And so a lot of. The lyric [00:26:00] sheets in the beginning are like a few lines and then like a million ideas and then a few more lines. And I feel like that really helps me kind of narrow down. 

El Train: That's really interesting. Yeah. So, so a lot of time poetry is like a huge inspiration for the stuff that you're writing then.

Amber Navran: Yeah. Yeah. It's not so much that I'm like taking any lines from anybody, but just looking at the way they're combining different words or like, maybe they've got like a a really cool adjective or verb that relates to like a person or a place that I've never seen anything like that before. So maybe I'll be like, do a brainstorm of a bunch of different adjectives or verbs, and then a bunch of different places or people, or, you know, some sort of noun.

And then you get some cool combinations where you're like, Ooh, that's actually exactly what I was trying to say for this song, you know, um, so it's a little nerdy, but it's fun. It's like when we're on [00:27:00] the road and you can't really make, it's really hard to be creative on the road. Um, but writing lyrics is something that's always felt accessible.

And, um, I saw an interview actually with hiatus coyote where now I was saying that she writes lyrics whenever she's, Because the process of like being in new places is really inspiring. And I was like, that's a great idea. I want to do that. So 

El Train: that's cool. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. I like that.

Amber Navran: I often get big groups of songs at once. So like with moon child, we have. When we're working on a new project, there's like 60 different beats that we're choosing from. And then we end up with like 30 ideas and it's like, okay, right, right. 30 ideas. I'm like, well, I don't have 30 things to say right now, but having that backlog of like notes and also like journaling and, and just taking notes on different things throughout the year, I can [00:28:00] go back and, you know, And do that easier if I already have done that work, you know, sure.

El Train: I think that leads me to kind of like a, another point. How often do you work on music, whether that's writing songs or working on a beat or something? Is that, are you doing that every day? Is that something you try to practice all the time or is it whenever you get the inspiration? 

Amber Navran: Yeah, I try to do it every day.

Um, depends on when people need things and what I've said yes to. And if I'm prepping for a show, then usually I'm not doing as much like writing and beat making, just kind of like working on the vocals or the performance. Um, but yeah, it's producing and writing. Is like my favorite thing. So whenever I'm going through something hard, I always know I can turn to that and try to like, make it a part of it.

My every day Yeah 

El Train: Yeah, great stress reliever 

Amber Navran: [00:29:00] Uh, 

El Train: and i've got a question here from uh, Toti Cisderos, I think that's how you say it Um, he asks what are some of your favorite albums of all time? Maybe even new and old, like, have you got any new albums that you love and, and some albums that you go back to all the time?

Amber Navran: Right now, I've been big on Victoria Monet's Jaguar II, uh, Alex Eiseley's Marigold. I keep going back to that. Um, Q Tips Amplified has been on heavy rotation, uh, Phil's album, Other Nature, Phil Boudreaux, um, Always Voodoo, Always Mama's Gun. Yeah, I'd say that's kind of my playlist right now. Um, yeah. 

El Train: Nice.

Yeah, there's a few that I haven't listened to actually, so I definitely need to check those out. [00:30:00] And another question. This is from August in a vein. I think. Sorry about that. Um, at what point did you start doing music full time? How long did it take you to, to build up enough different work, doing different things for it to become like your full time job?

Amber Navran: Yeah. It's a good question. Um, when Moonchild started, I was working at a bakery and teaching saxophone lessons to middle schoolers after I got off, um, kind of all over LA. And then I started getting enough students to, uh, quit my job at the bakery and was teaching seven days a week and making music and gigging after that.

And then, um, I think Moontrout started touring more maybe in like 2017, um, so that [00:31:00] around then is when I had to quit some of my teaching gigs because they wouldn't allow me to leave that much. And we, we were getting opening slots, um, and doing more touring. So yeah, I'd say like 2017, 2018, probably. was when I started doing mostly Moonchild and then other gigs and a little teaching.

So, yeah, it's been like a slow transition. Now these days it's a lot of recording work, which is great. That's like always been my goal. Um, and some touring. Yeah. 

El Train: Nice. I guess it's not, I'm similar. It's nice to have all these different things. Like you don't really know what you're going to be doing the next day.

There's, there's lots of different things happening all the time. 

Amber Navran: Yeah. Yeah, 

El Train: that's yeah, that's that's good fun. And before I let you go, I know you've got the cat pack album coming out in June. So that's already a huge thing. But have you got any of the other [00:32:00] plans for the rest of the year? Is there any other music coming or anything?

Amber Navran: Yeah, we're trying to get I did a project with Ninth Wonder, like a full album with Ninth Wonder. And, uh, it's been done for a while, but we've been trying to kind of get the final steps of like getting a label, finding a home for it and, um, finding a time to release it. And I was really hoping to put it out this year, but if not this year, then maybe early next year.

I have some projects in the works with Kiefer. We're working on an EP and, um, a project with Aaron Bentlage from Sage and Paul Cornish that I'm hoping, I'm hoping to finish it this year and put it out maybe next year sometime. Um, we recorded them playing duo, some jazz. Just like breathtaking. I had seen them play duo a lot live and every time they play [00:33:00] duo, I was whipping out my phone to record it.

And like sample, I chopped it up later and I was like, let's do this. Right. Let's get you in the studio and get like a nice recording. And, um, so it's kind of like a dream for me. I'm like, we're going to do a side a that's them and then a side B that's. Just beats made from their beautiful music. So I'm excited about that too.

Yeah. Yeah. 

El Train: I'm excited to hear that. I'm excited to hear all of those projects. You sound like you are very busy. 

Amber Navran: Uh, it's all, it's all like stuff that I love. So, um, 

El Train: yeah, for sure. But yeah, I just wanted to say, thank you. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on and thank you so much for dealing with all the technical difficulties I had.

On my end. No problem. Um, I encourage everyone to go and check out the whole of moonshine's amazing back catalog Um amber's debut album knock on the orange door and also go and [00:34:00] pre save the new cat pack album